Bolivian President Evo Morales

Cultures of dialogue and life

The Scope

The following is an excerpt from an interview of Bolivian President Evo Morales by Democracy Now correspondents Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez.

AMY GOODMAN: President Morales, President Chavez of Venezuela called President Bush a devil. What is your response to that?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] I’m not interested in commenting about these words between two presidents. But I’m convinced that people who represent a family, they can be professionals or not, they can be presidents or not. They all have dignity. One thing is to question someone’s policies. We can have differences. But to attack someone’s image or a direct offense, I don’t think I share that.

AMY GOODMAN: What is your assessment of President Bush?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] I hope that we can improve relations with Bush’s government. We hope that they can accompany these deep democratic transformations that we’re pursuing. We hope that we can continue with some support in health programs, but especially that they can accompany the transformations that are in course in Bolivia.

The indigenous cultures are cultures of dialogue and of life, not cultures of death and war. I’ve said publicly and very respectfully that the United States and other countries should get their troops out of Iraq, because it’s impossible that invaders and the invaded, and especially the innocent, continue to die. Conflicts should be discussed and debated in fora like the United Nations. I think it’s important to democratize the United Nations so that we can deal with issues like humanity, how to save the planet, how to avoid loss.

The indigenous communities live in harmony not only with their fellow persons, but also with Mother Earth. And we’re very worried about global warming, that’s leaving people without water. In the past we’ve seen the bodies of water that were up to certain level, are now declining. That means that in a very short time we’re going to have very serious problems. Without light, we can live with lamps, with oil lamps, but without water, we can’t live. I saw in a forum sponsored by ex-President Clinton yesterday, there’s a commission there that’s studying these issues of global warming.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I’d like to ask you, in many poor countries around the world, it is said that the most powerful official in the country is the U.S. ambassador, but in your campaign, you actually ran against, not just the other opponents, but against the role of the U.S. embassy and the U.S. ambassador in Bolivia. What is the role that the United States has played historically not only in Bolivia, but in Latin America, as far as you’re concerned?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] The arrogance of an ambassador or the arrogance of others, including a president, is always an error. This arrogance creates greater rebellion, greater resistance. In 2002, former U.S. ambassador to Bolivia, Manuel Rocha, said, “Don’t vote for Evo Morales.” And after that, people came out massively to vote for me. I said he was my best campaign chief. And a number of things were said about what would happen if I came to the presidency, that international cooperation would be reduced, we would no longer have access to markets, but in fact I’ve come to the presidency and we’ve seen a lot more support from other governments.

The United States embassy tried to effect the changes in the military high command. I said, “That’s not going to be changed. That’s a sovereign decision that we make.” So for that, we have obvious differences, but we want to work out those differences. Even though we’re an underdeveloped country, we’re a sovereign country, a country with dignity. One of the advantages that we have is that we begin to return dignity to the country. The name Bolivia is now understood. Our peoples need a strong sense of self-esteem. We want relations with all the countries that will be based on mutual respect, relations of complementarity, balance, solidarity, and for now, cooperation so that we can assure the changes that we’re trying to achieve.

JUAN GONZALEZ: In your nationalization, one of the groups in the gas companies that you nationalized were also Brazilian companies, as well. How have you been able to negotiate or deal with some of these inter-regional problems of the Brazilian companies also having such a huge say in your gas reserves?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] At first, there were protest and resistance, even from companero Lula — well, perhaps more the company. There was an emergency meeting of the four presidents in Iguassu in Argentina. We had a closed-door meeting between the four presidents. No minister’s presence, without any press. This is the first time I’ve told anybody this. I was attacked. Lula was rough with me. “Where is our partnership? Where is that cordiality? Why didn’t you consult me before the nationalization?”

But I defended myself, and I said that on a sovereign basis our country has every right to make decisions about the future of our strategic resources. We are generous. We are companeros. We are in solidarity. And as my older brother, and as the leader of a more developed country in the region, we recognize that and we respect that. I accept him as an older brother, because he too is a union leader. He’s older than me. And he’s older than I am, and in the Indian culture we respect our elders very much. But finally, he understood very well, because we were neither expropriating nor kicking out Petrobras.

What I explained is that after the supreme decree that did the nationalization, we were guaranteeing greater security, because the new contracts were going to be transparent and ratified through congress, because previously the contracts were kept under wraps, secret, and never ratified in congress. And we also showed technically, financially, with numbers, that the company was going to be able to recover their investment and would have a reasonable profit. They weren’t going to have as much profit as before, because the largest oil fields – excuse me, from the largest gas fields, the companies only gave 18% of royalties to the state and took 82% in profit. But now, with the new law we’ve changed that around, now 82% for the government, for the state, and 18% for the companies. They’re staying. There’s no problems. And from that large field that Petrobras is managing, we’ve already seen $150 million coming into government coffers now.

AMY GOODMAN: Mr. President, Bolivia was one of seven Condor countries that participated in the efforts to eliminate opponents of the regimes of past decades, that was spearheaded by Pinochet of Chile. The Banzer regime was an ally of the United States. As president, you’re in a position to secure and release the documents of that period, perhaps millions of documents. Will you commit yourself to doing that?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] We’re in a phase of not only revealing those documents, but also trying to find out what happened to people who were disappeared under Plan Condor. Some members of the military high command are actually cooperating, who at the time were probably lower-ranking officers or cadets. We have to dignify humanity, ending impunity. And it’s imperative that the armed forces become dignified before the country, as well. It’s important to note how much the image of the armed orces has improved next to my person in the country today. We’re going to continue with this campaign through my minister of justice and to reveal, uncover, to clarify many facts.

I very much want to find the bodies also of many of our mining leaders and the body of Marcelo Quiroga Santa Cruz.

AMY GOODMAN: Who was?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] He was a Socialist leader, who put Banzer on trial, and under the Garcia Meza dictatorship he was machine-gunned, and his remains disappeared. An intellectual who led the second nationalization of our gas and oil industries. Now we’re in the third nationalization.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think Henry Kissinger, who supported Pinochet and the generals in Argentina through Latin America, should be tried for war crimes?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] I’m not sure. That’s probably something for the United States to take up, but I want to take advantage of this opportunity to call on the people of the United States to help us in our efforts to extradite two [inaudible] people who practiced genocide, who were corrupt under previous administrations and who today are free here in the United States.

AMY GOODMAN: Names?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: [translated] Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, former president, who in 2003 was responsible for the death of over a hundred people killed by gunfire, along with his minister, Carlos Sanchez Berzain. We’re trying now to use all of the instruments at our disposal to extradite him, but it’s not moving forward. It’s running into some resistance here in the United States. A government that says it fights against terrorism, for human rights, against corruption, it’s not conceivable that this person would still be here. So we ask the people, the government and all the institutions of human rights to help with this.

The full transcript of this interview is available on Democracy Now’s website, democracynow.org